_TrueFacts
09-03 11:29 PM
I never thought CHANDUV23 will do dirty politics. A time will come to show the real color of the people. Do not rejoice when some one who is dead. It can happen to anyone. No guarenty we will see the home land again.
dealsnet,
You picking on CHANDUV23 is unwarranted. You lack debating skills. Do you have a argument to make against "unprecedented political killings, govt and personal land grabbing, corruption, and opportunistic politics of YSR" ?
dealsnet,
You picking on CHANDUV23 is unwarranted. You lack debating skills. Do you have a argument to make against "unprecedented political killings, govt and personal land grabbing, corruption, and opportunistic politics of YSR" ?
wallpaper house house Mitt Romney mitt romney house. house hair Mitt Romney
nk2006
10-09 02:49 PM
A GC cannot be filed directly from a TN or E3 status.
As mihird said, not much difference. I am a naturalized Canadian working in US for last 7 years (country of birth � India) � Canadian citizenship does not help much in I485 stage since you will fall under the quota of country of birth. One small advantage is consular processing � Canadians can apply for CP at Montreal which used to be faster. But with retrogession and improved AOS processing in USA makes this irrelevant.
Another general advantage is use of TN1 visa instead of H1B. You can actually start/continue green card processing while in TN1 visa status � it needs some careful planning but it can be done. Basically you cannot get/renew TN1 visa once I-485 is filed but until then you can continue on TN1 while your labor/140 is under process and while you are waiting for the dates to get current. But this aspect is generally misunderstood and many lawyers insist on transferring to H1B even before starting the labor process (which happened in my case leading to my present state where I am extending h1b beyond 6th/7th year). Basically with a good lawyer and flexible employer you can use TN1 as long as possible, so that you don�t get into 6th/7th year h1b tensions � this can be a slight advantage in some cases.
As mihird said, not much difference. I am a naturalized Canadian working in US for last 7 years (country of birth � India) � Canadian citizenship does not help much in I485 stage since you will fall under the quota of country of birth. One small advantage is consular processing � Canadians can apply for CP at Montreal which used to be faster. But with retrogession and improved AOS processing in USA makes this irrelevant.
Another general advantage is use of TN1 visa instead of H1B. You can actually start/continue green card processing while in TN1 visa status � it needs some careful planning but it can be done. Basically you cannot get/renew TN1 visa once I-485 is filed but until then you can continue on TN1 while your labor/140 is under process and while you are waiting for the dates to get current. But this aspect is generally misunderstood and many lawyers insist on transferring to H1B even before starting the labor process (which happened in my case leading to my present state where I am extending h1b beyond 6th/7th year). Basically with a good lawyer and flexible employer you can use TN1 as long as possible, so that you don�t get into 6th/7th year h1b tensions � this can be a slight advantage in some cases.
roseball
07-10 12:35 PM
Can anyone recommend any good IT consulting companies in Canada?
I need a permanent job offer to qualify for the points but most of the jobs for my skill set are either contract jobs or for relocation to USA. Please help.
Try www.cgi.com.
Its one of the top consulting companies in Canada which hire for full time positions....One of my colleagues moved to Canada last year and got a decent offer from CGI in Toronto.........Keep in mind that salaries in Canada when compared to US are not that great, not to mention high taxes.....But the peace of mind and stress free life is priceless.....
I need a permanent job offer to qualify for the points but most of the jobs for my skill set are either contract jobs or for relocation to USA. Please help.
Try www.cgi.com.
Its one of the top consulting companies in Canada which hire for full time positions....One of my colleagues moved to Canada last year and got a decent offer from CGI in Toronto.........Keep in mind that salaries in Canada when compared to US are not that great, not to mention high taxes.....But the peace of mind and stress free life is priceless.....
2011 Mitt Romney addresses the
amoljak
10-23 03:12 PM
Thanks eb3India.
How does the current company obtain a pre-approved labor? Does it buy the pre-app labour? Or is it SOLELY because someone in the company left (whose labor was approved)?
I was reading a lot about the controversy about why it should be stopped etc so i was wondering if someone had any documentation on why it was started in the first place and how it works
Thanks
The standard process approved by the DOFSY is that they sell 1500 pre-approved labors on E-bay every year. The Auction starts at 13:34 EST on February 7th each year and continues for a day. Once you buy the labors, there is a lobor subs market just like the stock market. People bid and buy labor certs whenever they need it.
( :) Take this post lightly )
How does the current company obtain a pre-approved labor? Does it buy the pre-app labour? Or is it SOLELY because someone in the company left (whose labor was approved)?
I was reading a lot about the controversy about why it should be stopped etc so i was wondering if someone had any documentation on why it was started in the first place and how it works
Thanks
The standard process approved by the DOFSY is that they sell 1500 pre-approved labors on E-bay every year. The Auction starts at 13:34 EST on February 7th each year and continues for a day. Once you buy the labors, there is a lobor subs market just like the stock market. People bid and buy labor certs whenever they need it.
( :) Take this post lightly )
more...
Macaca
02-19 10:31 AM
Actually, EB1 is current for India, China etc. Aren't they the brightest?
Even US Ph D does not mean EB1. I know top 60 Schools in which fresh Ph D's (for Asst Prof) apply for EB2.
I don't know if any US MS will go through EB1.
Even US Ph D does not mean EB1. I know top 60 Schools in which fresh Ph D's (for Asst Prof) apply for EB2.
I don't know if any US MS will go through EB1.
crazyghoda
05-29 01:25 PM
software engineers now coming to US to Religious workers..
Maybe the temples and other places of worship need software to manage the huge donations all of us are making to God to make the dates move. :D
Just a joke folks, dont get worked up.
Maybe the temples and other places of worship need software to manage the huge donations all of us are making to God to make the dates move. :D
Just a joke folks, dont get worked up.
more...
kumar1
07-11 01:10 AM
Well, there is just one crieteria, work your ass off and get 40 points.
2010 Mitt Romney#39;s Jobs Record To
MYGC2008
09-23 05:50 PM
By Looking into Data provided, INDIA EB2 should get more Visa this year.
Look at the Data for EB2 CHINA
for 2004 it is 123 and for 2005 it is 4100.
If the Cutoff Dates does not move for China/India ,How they going to use spillover visas?
This is really interesting
Since EB1 is Current and Rest all Eb2(except CHINA/INDIA) are current. This time there will be huge spillover.
Look at the Data for EB2 CHINA
for 2004 it is 123 and for 2005 it is 4100.
If the Cutoff Dates does not move for China/India ,How they going to use spillover visas?
This is really interesting
Since EB1 is Current and Rest all Eb2(except CHINA/INDIA) are current. This time there will be huge spillover.
more...
poorslumdog
09-04 12:19 PM
You are showing your contribution in all your postings. Don't have any shame???
your left hand should not know what your right hand is doing(giving)
It is typical for many Indians to put their name in cars (even here) and their contribution to temples to be anounced in public address system and put names on any things which they are donated.
You need to change the style, if you are in Rome, behave like Romas.
Answer the question directly...Dont give all these crap.
your left hand should not know what your right hand is doing(giving)
It is typical for many Indians to put their name in cars (even here) and their contribution to temples to be anounced in public address system and put names on any things which they are donated.
You need to change the style, if you are in Rome, behave like Romas.
Answer the question directly...Dont give all these crap.
hair Mitt Romney
sachug22
09-24 06:40 PM
If you see the number of application pending in EB2 ROW for 2007 and 2008 they are huge compared to previous years somewhere in hundereds which can mean having the above said issues. The number of applications related to the above mentioned issues cannot spike significantly in just 2007 and 2008. Either the data is old and can mean that these applications are processed and approved and we wait until the new data is posted.
You can compare this with the PERM data. PERM data has very low EB2 ROW application in a given year and hence has always remained current.
Is my assumption correct?
CIS files your application until its time to process. Check the processing dates for Texas and Nebraska service center they are still in second half of 2007. So these applications are filled and waiting for the processing dates to move forward.
I am not sure if any of your application was delayed due to CIS processing delays, but if they have limited resources they have to go sequentially in order of receipt date (and at time simple approvals AP/EAD could take 4-6 months).
You can compare this with the PERM data. PERM data has very low EB2 ROW application in a given year and hence has always remained current.
Is my assumption correct?
CIS files your application until its time to process. Check the processing dates for Texas and Nebraska service center they are still in second half of 2007. So these applications are filled and waiting for the processing dates to move forward.
I am not sure if any of your application was delayed due to CIS processing delays, but if they have limited resources they have to go sequentially in order of receipt date (and at time simple approvals AP/EAD could take 4-6 months).
more...
CADude
02-13 10:51 PM
SIMPLE FACT: World is driven by self interest. General Attitude: Please let me get my GC first then I will be generous. I will agree do whatever you want and not object for anything but please give me GC first. People complain when they suffer otherwise who cares. Let them get hell with it. EB3 India is in same place from last 3 years but i didn't heard any buzz. Now all hope is dazed so hue and cry all over.
I am also suffering quite long (7+ year) in process and don't want any one go through same pain because i suffered.
Work for Goal and live a good life. It will not come back.
Take care..
I am also suffering quite long (7+ year) in process and don't want any one go through same pain because i suffered.
Work for Goal and live a good life. It will not come back.
Take care..
hot candidate Mitt Romney
kumar1305
01-22 07:44 PM
I'm sick of you guyz. How long would you fight among us. We fought among us and the rest ruled us for more than 1000 years. We are educated but of no use, still fighting for no reason. Looking at you I feel the older generation made no mistake(atleast they were not as educated as us). But is it? Can't we be united? What could unite us?
more...
house Mitt Romney campaign video
snram4
01-17 10:14 AM
Even if it is ok to fight how much resource IV have it to fight multiple issues. Resource means not just money but also time, manpower and effort. Most of the issues can be resolved if EB reform is done as people need not renew H1b as most can get GC within 3 years. Law clearly tells that there should be valid job position for H1b at the time of filing. For consulting bodyshoppers will bring persons here and search for job. That is clearly violation of law.
But certainly it can be requested to USCIS to change if geneunie persons are impacted. If memorendum is violation of law then USCIS will face lawsuit and you can also do that
There is no such requirement for fresh H1B as well as renewal as per Law. That is why we call it an ILLEGAL memo. We all need to fight this together.
NB: I am not a specialist in law
But certainly it can be requested to USCIS to change if geneunie persons are impacted. If memorendum is violation of law then USCIS will face lawsuit and you can also do that
There is no such requirement for fresh H1B as well as renewal as per Law. That is why we call it an ILLEGAL memo. We all need to fight this together.
NB: I am not a specialist in law
tattoo and Mitt Romney, 42-49.
kumarc123
07-29 11:08 AM
The argument that EB2-1 PD will retrogress to 2002 or 2004 does not seem to be based on numbers, but a random speculation. Doesn't not undermine vdlrao's projections in a credible way
Spillover may not be there, or may be there but when the new quota opens up October 1st, new minimum numbers will be available for EB2-I. Worst case scenario, dates will remain static or very minimal backward movement. It looks like the black hole is the time between late 2004 and early 2005, pre-PERM.Other than saying there is massive inventory of backlogged cases, Ron has not given better/ actual numbers of likely pending EB-2 I cases.
I agree with you, and believe me, all the white lawyers, none of them go the extra mile to calculate numbers. All they are concerned with is their fees.
I have a white lawyer and being a member in IV, I know more than she does. Her lack of knowledge does not undermine her credibility, but it is not her job to know the numbers, she presents her client's case to INS, from there its guess work.
I think Vldrao and other members are not too optimistic or blindly optimistic, they calculated numbers and analyzed the results.
Thanks
Spillover may not be there, or may be there but when the new quota opens up October 1st, new minimum numbers will be available for EB2-I. Worst case scenario, dates will remain static or very minimal backward movement. It looks like the black hole is the time between late 2004 and early 2005, pre-PERM.Other than saying there is massive inventory of backlogged cases, Ron has not given better/ actual numbers of likely pending EB-2 I cases.
I agree with you, and believe me, all the white lawyers, none of them go the extra mile to calculate numbers. All they are concerned with is their fees.
I have a white lawyer and being a member in IV, I know more than she does. Her lack of knowledge does not undermine her credibility, but it is not her job to know the numbers, she presents her client's case to INS, from there its guess work.
I think Vldrao and other members are not too optimistic or blindly optimistic, they calculated numbers and analyzed the results.
Thanks
more...
pictures Mitt Romney at the 35th annual
H1BinNY
07-03 07:00 PM
I digged all the comments but looks like someone is trying to bury them again and again...
Probably someone from USCIS
Probably someone from USCIS
dresses Mitt Romney. From the archive
Macaca
02-19 10:31 AM
Actually, EB1 is current for India, China etc. Aren't they the brightest?
Even US Ph D does not mean EB1. I know top 60 Schools in which fresh Ph D's (for Asst Prof) apply for EB2.
I don't know if any US MS will go through EB1.
Even US Ph D does not mean EB1. I know top 60 Schools in which fresh Ph D's (for Asst Prof) apply for EB2.
I don't know if any US MS will go through EB1.
more...
makeup photo-op for Mitt Romney
hpandey
12-19 03:29 PM
Now on the main page of yahoo finance. They are proposing the same thing that IV is - To give immigrants chance to buy houses
http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/149374/Housing-Cure-Give-Us-Your-Skilled-Your-Educated-Your-Bundled-Mortgages?tickers=%5Edji,%5Egspc,XHB,TLT,TOL,DHI,P HM
This can be really good point for use by IV since it has caught the attention of mainstream media now . Available at finance.yahoo.com
http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/149374/Housing-Cure-Give-Us-Your-Skilled-Your-Educated-Your-Bundled-Mortgages?tickers=%5Edji,%5Egspc,XHB,TLT,TOL,DHI,P HM
This can be really good point for use by IV since it has caught the attention of mainstream media now . Available at finance.yahoo.com
girlfriend dresses mitt romney olympics.
yogi13229
07-08 03:10 PM
I have filled my Green card in Eb3 category. I am planning to now file it in Eb2 Category, but want to retain my Eb3 Priority date (which is 2005) . Please let me know:
1) How does it affect my current Green card process in case of Rejection of New ( Eb2) or Query on it( RFE).
2) If a different employer files my green card in EB2 category, at what stage will I have to join this new employer. I am planning to let my new (future) employer file GC in Eb2 while I continue working for my old employee. I will then join the new employer after getting the green card. Is this possible? I want this EB2 case to have the same priority date as EB3.
3) I Have Already filled 485 in Eb3 category , Do I have to file I485 in Eb2 Again or my Previous Eb3 485 Transfered to this New Eb2 Category
4) If I have to file New I485 in Eb2 in that case what happened to My Eb3 485
Thanks
yogi
1) How does it affect my current Green card process in case of Rejection of New ( Eb2) or Query on it( RFE).
2) If a different employer files my green card in EB2 category, at what stage will I have to join this new employer. I am planning to let my new (future) employer file GC in Eb2 while I continue working for my old employee. I will then join the new employer after getting the green card. Is this possible? I want this EB2 case to have the same priority date as EB3.
3) I Have Already filled 485 in Eb3 category , Do I have to file I485 in Eb2 Again or my Previous Eb3 485 Transfered to this New Eb2 Category
4) If I have to file New I485 in Eb2 in that case what happened to My Eb3 485
Thanks
yogi
hairstyles Mitt Romney
z029556
08-14 02:26 PM
Hello Sir/Madam,
Recently I have E-Filed for EAD renew and have sent all the supporting documents the following day. But I have recieved an RFE for the photos I haven't sent along with the documents and asked me submit 2 color passport photos. It was my understading that I don't have to send the photos while E-filing since they will be taken at the bio-metric appt. I am done with my bio-metric appt. Do i need to contact USCIS about this or is there any thing you can suggest me.
Regards
Vijay
p.s I have already responded to the RFE with 2 color photos.
Recently I have E-Filed for EAD renew and have sent all the supporting documents the following day. But I have recieved an RFE for the photos I haven't sent along with the documents and asked me submit 2 color passport photos. It was my understading that I don't have to send the photos while E-filing since they will be taken at the bio-metric appt. I am done with my bio-metric appt. Do i need to contact USCIS about this or is there any thing you can suggest me.
Regards
Vijay
p.s I have already responded to the RFE with 2 color photos.
qasleuth
05-28 11:55 PM
[B]
Mr. Oppenheim estimated that there are currently 25,000 EB2 and EB3 cases from Indian nationals that have been reviewed and are only waiting for visa numbers for final processing.
Help me understand here: when pre-adjudicating applications, either you pre-approve, if not satisfied issue RFE or deny. Why would only 25,000 applications have been pre-adjudicated ? NSC processing timeframe being Aug 27, 2007 and TSC Aug 8, 2007, shouldn't the 25,000 number be much higher when compared to the total of 120,000 applications chargeable to India?
Mr. Oppenheim estimated that there are currently 25,000 EB2 and EB3 cases from Indian nationals that have been reviewed and are only waiting for visa numbers for final processing.
Help me understand here: when pre-adjudicating applications, either you pre-approve, if not satisfied issue RFE or deny. Why would only 25,000 applications have been pre-adjudicated ? NSC processing timeframe being Aug 27, 2007 and TSC Aug 8, 2007, shouldn't the 25,000 number be much higher when compared to the total of 120,000 applications chargeable to India?
lahiribaba
06-13 12:20 AM
I am simply stumped at the level of comprehension of the folks right here. Let me summarize my views as points and hopefully I will get through to you guys
1. My mention of BITS was not to prove that I was the best and the brightest. It was to prove that my education was NOT subsidized by the govt of India directly or indirectly. Remember passing out of any university doesnt confer the title of the best and the brightest. Unseenguy - If you have kicked the ass of IITians, bitsians etc then consider yourselves genuine. Why this unnecessary trip down "Not confident about myself lane" ?
2. My mention of MSFT was again not to prove that I am part of the best and rightest. It was to prove that I came here not with the value proposition of low costs but with the value proposition of hardwork and some talent. I did not compromise on my pay or did replace any native employee. Oh BTW I left MSFT in 2000
3. My mention of the 3 layoffs and my journey was to inform you guys that whatever is happening now is similar to whatever happened in 2001. I wanted to calm down the nerves of the genuine people. Without reading and comprehending the posts, I get responses like that I was an illegal. Remember I was taken back in for 2 days, 485/AP/EAD applied and my jobless days were with my EAD in hand.
4. One of the reasons, I am against outsourcing companies is that they dump low wage workers. If you guys are aware, every country, including India and US, has anti dumping laws to protect local industries. I am not against offshoring or outsourcing but I am against dumping. Some posters have questioned how I would be affected by all this if I were the among the best and the brightest ? Valid question to a good extent. If you realize that as you age your speed and dexterity at which one adopts newer skills start waning. How long do you think that upgrading skills in a single industry would be possible when you are going to be constantly competing with walmart style options ?
For now I have chosen to enroll myself in an MBA program and I am hoping that my skills wouldn't be diluted. Think about going to school at age 35 with the responsibility of family and kid. This is my last ditch effort in upgrading my skills because it involves a substantial ownpayment. I am not sure about you guys but a 100K investment for school now is huge for me. The big question is, I am able to pull up my last bit of energy to upgrade now but will it be possible 5 years now if these outsourcing companies starting dumping low cost MBAs ? This is what I meant by my quality of life being impacted. If you guys think that you wouldnt go through the same scenario, then you need some serious retrospection.
One last thing I would like to point out the inherent contradiction that the current prospective immigrants are facing today. GC is a process that is there to fill in the lack of skills in the US. However with unemployment running close to 10%, the question arises as to whether to train local populace for these skills. There are just 2 exits out of this contradiction
1. Bring in low cost labor to fulfill this shortage and avoid local training costs
2. Expand on a new idea. Green seems to be the buzzword today.
In my opinion, option 1 is lose lose situation for all including the actual foreign employee who provides the services at a low cost. It is the outsourcing company for sure and probably the hiring company that may benefit. The society as a whole loses. Option 2 is an organic option but is laen with the dangers of delays in take off and boom and bust cycles. This is exactly the reason why I suggested that we cut these outsourcing cs from dumping bodies here. I hope I have clarified my opinions lucidly and hopefully look forward to a mature discussion as opposed to name calling, affronts etc.
look man wether anyone likes it or not fact is that jobs are going to two countries with a billion dollar plus population ... they are hardworking and they are verrrrrrrryyyyy hungry.... so even if you stop immigrants alltogether from coming to this country .. it does not matter. The jobs will simply go there (to China and India). After all the companies exist to serve their shareholders and not their employees and the simplest way to maximize profit is to cut cost. Simple!!! the outsourcing offshoring train has just started and there is no stopping it.
You may argue to some extent that the complexity of your job will provide your protection but the fact is management is always scared off complex functions that require expensive resources (i.e human beings) .. management will always want to break down your job to lowest common denominator so that it can be shipped or done at lower cost. For that they will be willing to go all the way - including changing technology , buying into marketing BS or spending millions of dollars.
Also if the american market dies is that going to be a very big deal ? not anymore .. the domestic market of both India and China is getting bigger everyday .. the fire has been lit and the horse has been left out of the stable .. its at a point of no return.
So brace for the change because the times are a changing...
1. My mention of BITS was not to prove that I was the best and the brightest. It was to prove that my education was NOT subsidized by the govt of India directly or indirectly. Remember passing out of any university doesnt confer the title of the best and the brightest. Unseenguy - If you have kicked the ass of IITians, bitsians etc then consider yourselves genuine. Why this unnecessary trip down "Not confident about myself lane" ?
2. My mention of MSFT was again not to prove that I am part of the best and rightest. It was to prove that I came here not with the value proposition of low costs but with the value proposition of hardwork and some talent. I did not compromise on my pay or did replace any native employee. Oh BTW I left MSFT in 2000
3. My mention of the 3 layoffs and my journey was to inform you guys that whatever is happening now is similar to whatever happened in 2001. I wanted to calm down the nerves of the genuine people. Without reading and comprehending the posts, I get responses like that I was an illegal. Remember I was taken back in for 2 days, 485/AP/EAD applied and my jobless days were with my EAD in hand.
4. One of the reasons, I am against outsourcing companies is that they dump low wage workers. If you guys are aware, every country, including India and US, has anti dumping laws to protect local industries. I am not against offshoring or outsourcing but I am against dumping. Some posters have questioned how I would be affected by all this if I were the among the best and the brightest ? Valid question to a good extent. If you realize that as you age your speed and dexterity at which one adopts newer skills start waning. How long do you think that upgrading skills in a single industry would be possible when you are going to be constantly competing with walmart style options ?
For now I have chosen to enroll myself in an MBA program and I am hoping that my skills wouldn't be diluted. Think about going to school at age 35 with the responsibility of family and kid. This is my last ditch effort in upgrading my skills because it involves a substantial ownpayment. I am not sure about you guys but a 100K investment for school now is huge for me. The big question is, I am able to pull up my last bit of energy to upgrade now but will it be possible 5 years now if these outsourcing companies starting dumping low cost MBAs ? This is what I meant by my quality of life being impacted. If you guys think that you wouldnt go through the same scenario, then you need some serious retrospection.
One last thing I would like to point out the inherent contradiction that the current prospective immigrants are facing today. GC is a process that is there to fill in the lack of skills in the US. However with unemployment running close to 10%, the question arises as to whether to train local populace for these skills. There are just 2 exits out of this contradiction
1. Bring in low cost labor to fulfill this shortage and avoid local training costs
2. Expand on a new idea. Green seems to be the buzzword today.
In my opinion, option 1 is lose lose situation for all including the actual foreign employee who provides the services at a low cost. It is the outsourcing company for sure and probably the hiring company that may benefit. The society as a whole loses. Option 2 is an organic option but is laen with the dangers of delays in take off and boom and bust cycles. This is exactly the reason why I suggested that we cut these outsourcing cs from dumping bodies here. I hope I have clarified my opinions lucidly and hopefully look forward to a mature discussion as opposed to name calling, affronts etc.
look man wether anyone likes it or not fact is that jobs are going to two countries with a billion dollar plus population ... they are hardworking and they are verrrrrrrryyyyy hungry.... so even if you stop immigrants alltogether from coming to this country .. it does not matter. The jobs will simply go there (to China and India). After all the companies exist to serve their shareholders and not their employees and the simplest way to maximize profit is to cut cost. Simple!!! the outsourcing offshoring train has just started and there is no stopping it.
You may argue to some extent that the complexity of your job will provide your protection but the fact is management is always scared off complex functions that require expensive resources (i.e human beings) .. management will always want to break down your job to lowest common denominator so that it can be shipped or done at lower cost. For that they will be willing to go all the way - including changing technology , buying into marketing BS or spending millions of dollars.
Also if the american market dies is that going to be a very big deal ? not anymore .. the domestic market of both India and China is getting bigger everyday .. the fire has been lit and the horse has been left out of the stable .. its at a point of no return.
So brace for the change because the times are a changing...
